[Lee Brimmicombe-Wood]

I'm trying to decide what game to design next. Possible options:

Air Warning Red. I'm having real problems designing a good game around such a small, chaotic war. The problem is not modelling the Falklands War, but making it a contest without stretching he bounds of reality. I'm tacking away from this right now, as I can't solve the puzzle.

AWACS. A cut-down Downtown borrowing ideas from Nightfighter to create a game about BVR engagements. I'm not sure how much of a game there is there at present. More research required.

Indo-Pak Air War 65. Having decided that my Zulu Alert Central Front Op Scale concept is just too monstrous to be practical, I'm trying to boil it down to a smaller war. I'm in the reading and research stage on this right now and there may be potential. But there's a lot of number crunching and storyboarding to be done yet before I can validate whether there is a game in this.

[Elias Nordling]

I can see the problem withb the Falklands, it is a very one-dimensional situation, where the Britis train railroads towards the island and the Argentines throw things at them. It is what could be called a zero-player situation, as the choices of both sides are so limited that they vcould easily be approximated into an algorithm, making a game that plays itself.

I. presume Indo-pak would have a different scale than Downtown. Could you tell us more about the concept?

[Nisse]

And now for something completely different...

How about a solitaire game where the player is a policecommander trying to manage a riot in a city. Politicians get in tbe way, journalists report, troublemakers appear. Your job is to quell the riot without using too much force. If you do you are fired. Resources are not always enough or qualified. Some houses/areas much be protected but that can change as politicians and other have their own agendas.

Just an idea.

[Lee Brimmicombe-Wood]

I'm looking at an Indo-Pak '65 game that would be true Operational scale. Which is to say the focus is on basing, targeting and sortie generation. Actual mission resolution would be abstracted.

Units would be squadrons. Turns would be two days. Unit strength measured in increments of two aircraft.

The ground war would be abstracted with ground war tracks for the Chamb sector; Sialkot Sector (including the thrust on the Dera Baba Nanak Bridge); the corridor Amritsar to Lahore, including the Khem Karan counterattack; the Sulaimanke Sector.

[Elias Nordling]

Was it an even contest or a blowout?

[Lee Brimmicombe-Wood]

It was pretty much a draw in '65. It was '71 that was the blowout.

[Elias Nordling]

Well go for it

[sfclinken]

And I had such hope for Zulu Alert. Maybe you just need a new concept to simulate it...Atleast give it another thought before you put it into the coffin  

However, given the choices Indo-Pak sounds like the choice to go for. Tried to catch up on the conflict a little and as you wrote it looks like a true stalemate. Both in air and on the ground. Sounds like a challenge to make a game of it (but hey, you have done it before).

[Lee Brimmicombe-Wood]

I've a way to go before I can validate the game concept. I'm still reading the history. I have a bunch of storyboarding on activity rates to do as well. I have a sketch of a map, though. Which is a start, since a lot of physical systems fall out of that.

[Mode]

Why not the Iran - Iraq war? I am currently reading the Cooper/Bishop book and judging from it I think this would make quite a balanced and varied situation, with mission types such as city bombing, CAS, strikes on oil pumping equipment and last but not least the infamous tanker war.

One problem is the lack of verifiable sources. Cooper/Bishop appear to be somewhat biased towards Iran and there is a distinct lack of other reliable information.

This war is somewhat of a paradox. It is quite well known and lasted for several years in the not to distant past yet there are almost no games or books covering it.

[Vvornth]

Why not the Iran - Iraq war?

Given how "dirty" it was, and how many strategical objectives were downright immoral, it might reflect badly on the hobby as a whole.

[Tryggve]

Why not the Iran - Iraq war? I am currently reading the Cooper/Bishop book and judging from it I think this would make quite a balanced and varied situation, with mission types such as city bombing, CAS, strikes on oil pumping equipment and last but not least the infamous tanker war.

One problem is the lack of verifiable sources. Cooper/Bishop appear to be somewhat biased towards Iran and there is a distinct lack of other reliable information.

This war is somewhat of a paradox. It is quite well known and lasted for several years in the not to distant past yet there are almost no games or books covering it.

From what I recall from discussions about the sources available, Tom Cooper said one major problem was that there were a lack of sources from the Iraqi perspective when the book was written.

The fall of Saddam changed that, and there is a new book about the Iraqi air force out now, written by Cooper and a co-autour. I haven't read it myself, so I can't really say anything about it.

http://www.harpia-publishing.com/pdf/Ir ... ers_ad.pdf
Well, "new", it is from 2008....

[Lee Brimmicombe-Wood]

Given how "dirty" it was, and how many strategical objectives were downright immoral, it might reflect badly on the hobby as a whole.

Since when has that ever stopped me? I just released a game where you can ignite a firestorm in Dresden.

[Lee Brimmicombe-Wood]

Why not the Iran - Iraq war? I am currently reading the Cooper/Bishop book and judging from it I think this would make quite a balanced and varied situation, with mission types such as city bombing, CAS, strikes on oil pumping equipment and last but not least the infamous tanker war.

One problem is the lack of verifiable sources. Cooper/Bishop appear to be somewhat biased towards Iran and there is a distinct lack of other reliable information.

This war is somewhat of a paradox. It is quite well known and lasted for several years in the not to distant past yet there are almost no games or books covering it.

I have a rather good paper by Maj. Ronald Bergquist, published by Air University Press, that lays out why this might be a poor subject for a game. Essentially, the air forces, thanks to PGM, were so effective in strikes on oil production and refining, that both sides mutually eased off their attacks, realising that they could not afford to lose their primary sources of foreign revenue. An unspoken policy of deterrence was established, in which the primary goal of Iran and Iraq was to maintain a force-in-being in case the ground war suffered a major reverse for them. As a result the air war de-escalated and was confined to skirmishes after the early months; it being more important to preserve the air forces than employ them.

[Mode]

Given how "dirty" it was, and how many strategical objectives were downright immoral, it might reflect badly on the hobby as a whole.

Wouldn´t that view apply equally well to any WW2 game involving Germans? Or, for that matter, almost any wargame, depending on the particular colour of someone´s PC glasses?