[magnus lindström]

Jag har spelar GWAS förut och ska titta efter igen.

[magnus lindström]

Det låter verklige som alla faryg måste placerasså när som möjligt eller så sftar man på de man säter ut efter de  8 första. När det gäller gruppeså är det väl så att fartyg av samma typ måste bli en grupp om e är i samma hexaon. Minns inte så br om du hör något på consim så skriv det gärna.

J har för mig att vissa anänder samma stridssytem som i SWWAS för GWAS.

[Lee Brimmicombe-Wood]

Does anyone have Ben Knight's clever little game on Jutland, produced for Command magazine?

[Elias Nordling]

Does anyone have Ben Knight's clever little game on Jutland, produced for Command magazine?

Have it, haven't played it. Anything by Ben Knight is, per definition, clever. Wish someone could bring him back into designing wargames.

[Lee Brimmicombe-Wood]

Does anyone have Ben Knight's clever little game on Jutland, produced for Command magazine?

Have it, haven't played it. Anything by Ben Knight is, per definition, clever. Wish someone could bring him back into designing wargames.

The game is flawed: primarily in the victory conditions. It also suffers a little from the God's eye view that the admirals never had. Yet it brings the entire battle down to a manageable size and length.

The Salvo system was based on the rules, but is in every way inferior.

[Elias Nordling]

The Salvo system was based on the rules, but is in every way inferior.

The 3W Salvo games? Tried them. Thought they were OK but not great. Minden Games has a clever little postcard game called Salvo too.

Does the Jutland game suffer from the usual increased level of destruction by public demand that you see in most naval wargames? I can't stand that.

[A F]

the usual increased level of destruction by public demand

Another of those cool scentences that has me asking WHAT????

[Elias Nordling]

Another of those cool scentences that has me asking WHAT????

Most naval games I'm aware of has a higher rate of lethality than in real life. Probably because people like to blow things up, and banging away for hours with a hundred ships without much happening isn't considered fun enough.

Flying Colours, GMTs napoleonic ship combat game, has ships blowing to pieces at every turn.

[A F]

Flying Colours, GMTs napoleonic ship combat game, has ships blowing to pieces at every turn.

And a turn is what? Two years?

[Lee Brimmicombe-Wood]

Does the Jutland game suffer from the usual increased level of destruction by public demand that you see in most naval wargames? I can't stand that.

The gunnery results seemed about right, particularly if you assumed (as the game does) that kills are not sinkings but putting targets out of the fighting.

I think the only thing we quibbled about was the effectiveness of torpedo attacks. But here a case can be made that the game simulated the perceived threat rather than the actual one. The game makes you suitably nervous, as the actual captains were, of the destroyer screens.

[Lee Brimmicombe-Wood]

Another of those cool scentences that has me asking WHAT????

Most naval games I'm aware of has a higher rate of lethality than in real life. Probably because people like to blow things up, and banging away for hours with a hundred ships without much happening isn't considered fun enough.

Flying Colours, GMTs napoleonic ship combat game, has ships blowing to pieces at every turn.

That's because most age of sail naval games are scaled wrong. They want to reproduce the captain's battle, which may be suitable for frigate battles but not for ships of the line. This approach distorts the model.

Ben Knight's Jutland game shows the way forward, by arranging ships by division. When you scale up you can also fix the game to longer time scales to reflect the longer periods of the melee.

A problem of large scale games is that the admiral's battle is a very different animal from the captain's battle. The admiral's battle is about bringing the fleet into contact. The captain's battle is about killing. Too many games try to do it all and have both. As a designer I think there's more merit in focusing on the Admiral's fight--the two or three critical signals that set up the geometry of the encounter--and then abstracting the captain's battle down to a simple CRT. None of this counting factors nonsense. Just go in and get biffing.

[Lee Brimmicombe-Wood]

Another of those cool scentences that has me asking WHAT????

I think he means that the tactical games give you the movie version of combat rather than the actualité.

[magnus lindström]

Im hoping for PQ17

[Lee Brimmicombe-Wood]

Im hoping for PQ17

That looks interesting. At one stage I was going to do the art for it, but I had to pull out because I was overextended.

I suspect Chris J. (who is one of my test regulars) has thrown the kitchen sink into this one. The components had a raft of factors 'n stuff!