[Strv102r]

Huvudattraktionen är uppenbarligen Napoleons fälttåg i Egypten. Men den intresserar mig föga. Eftersom RSW är litet och temamässigt, och inte minst kronologiskt, passar in i spelserien så tar vi det med.

[Strv102r]

Kartan. Delad i två halvor där den vänstra används för finbska kriget. Lite illustrationer i kanten tagna från Fänrik Ståls sägner. Trevligt. Jag tycker nog att det borde varit mer skog längs kusten. Man kunde ha skiljt på "light" och heavy woods" eller "woods" och "forest" eller kallat det värre rough. Så öppen är inte terrängen runt exempelvis Tammerfors.

[Strv102r]

Ryska brickor



Svenska brickor. Dessas utseende, som delgavs på S&T site, fick mig att ha lite synpunkter på Consim forum innan spelet gavs ut. Valda uttdrag följer

Jag:

Swedish uniforms

I dont know if it is something to bother about in game, or if its already taken care of, but only the units from "proper" Sweden had blue uniforms jackets and white pants. Those from Finland had all grey uniforms.

Dan Raspler:

Ola is correct in all regards and should be publically applauded for his dedication to historical detail and correctitude.

Sadly, I had anticipated this game as an accurate simulation. Now I will have to wait for the reprint.

Jag:

The following link provides some colourplates on various Swedish uniforms during the war. According to Martin Hårdstedts book "the Finnish war 1808-1809" all regiments from todays Sweden wore blue jackets and white or yellow pants and those from todays Finland wore all grey, except Österbottens regiment that wore the blue and yellow.

http://www.multi.fi/~goranfri/uniforms.html

I found the following reason for the mix of blue and grey uniforms in service at the same time on a page on the Napoleonic Swedish army:

"Q. It would seem that the early (1802) uniform was blue, the 1807 uniform was grey, and the 1810 uniform was blue again.

A. There is a story to this! The traditional colour of the Swedish Army's uniform was blue. A national blue uniform for all units was introduced as early as in the late 17th century I believe. In any case in 1808-09 Sweden's finances wasn't in a great state, why someone came up with the bright idea that grey uniforms should be cheaper than blue ones. However, it proved extremely difficult to dye the uniforms in a single and uniform shade of grey... why costs instead increased as uniforms perhaps had to be redyed or more attention had to be spent to try to get the proper mixture for the "right" shade of grey. Thus, the idea of the "cheaper" grey uniform was fairly soon discarded and blue, which was more liked anyway, re-introduced."

Mike Smith

Pet peeve: iconic counters that show the wrong uniform (Here I Stand - fantastic game, but the icons are of soldiers from a period 50 years after the era of the game). I like the style and colour of the Eskubi counters in this game and others. But, please, oh please, do the (simple) research necessary to get the right uniforms - whats the point of those colourful pics if they are actually showing the dress of a different period? For instance, the shako-clad French infantry in the Egypt game are those of the post 1805 period. For the Egyptian campaign the bicorne was the normal headgear. The British counter shows the post-1812 uniform. Trivial? Not if you think its worth putting icons rather than symbols on the counters in the first place.

Ty Bomba (Da man)

Your "pet peeve" ran to over 135 words. I hope we never do anything that really angers you.

Mike Smith

Yes, and I count 21 French infantry counters with the wrong uniform....

Ty Bomba

I appreciate the sincerity and depth of your annoyance. Given that you've now registered it -- eloquently and fully -- I hope, however, that at some time in the not too distant future you'll be able to get beyond the pictographic details on the counters and get into the play of the game itself.

As far as that aspect of things goes, I believe I can assure you "The Egyptian Campaign" presents an entertaining, strategically historic, and informative examination of that little-gamed, but critical, episode of Napoleon's career.

In defense of the counter-artist -- and our unit-counter-production standards in general -- I'd like to explain that we've never offered up our iconic counters as being museum-quality, photographically accurate, representations of particular units. The idea is simply to present a more colorful and dramatic symbology for armed forces in eras (and/or at certain scales) that benefit from such treatment.

Jag:

Well said! But it just isnt good enough. The correct uniformcolours of the Swedish army is readily available on the net. Why not be accurate in that regard as well? It might be a great game, but the research is, at best, below standards. There is no credible defense of such a lack of research. I do not buy a game, I buy a synthesis of historical works. Rarely am I disappointed. But in this case I am. Still I am impressed that someone outside Sweden (including Finland) has noticed that there was a war fought up here in 1809-1809.

Ty Bomba:

Well, there you are: you pay your money and you take your choice.

Robert Tunstall:

Well, I for one am not impressed with the responses so far.
The questions were legitimate and don't deserve the answers given.

Ty Bomba:

I have endeavored to answer truthfully and in a straightforward manner. I acknowledge the complaint, and respect the right of those who hold it to do so. I have then also explained our rationale in producing such counters the way we do. I'll try again.

We have neither the philosophic bent, the time, the personnel, nor surpluses of the other factors of production, which would be necessary to produce 'photo-real' counters of the type called for in the complaints above.

Despite the protestations posted above, claiming that producing such detail-real counters would be 'simple' and no problem at all, I can assure you the truth is otherwise. We need to reserve our time and expertise to expend in the other areas of wargame production that are more broadly held to be critical to play.

Yet again: this type of counter is not -- and has never been -- intended by us to pass for photo-real; they are meant to be iconic-evocative by broad unit-type, not by individual formations.

If your view of the criticality of such historical detail as having the 'wrong' hats on some icons, or trousers the 'wrong' shade in relation to a jacket's color, etc. -- if that kind of counter-minutia is so important to you as to have it wreck a game for you, then that is a factor you need to take into account when deciding whether to purchase one of our games that has iconic counters.

I don't know how to better, or more truthfully, explain the situation.

Thank you for your understanding.

Mike Smith:

Ty, you perhaps should have a sharper sense of who your friends are. I have been a subscriber of S&T for quite a while now, and before that brought many a single issue. I tried to signal in my post that I was'nt looking for a fight (peeve; trivial), just that all things being equal I (as a customer) would rather have the icons accurate than not. I don't think the research necessary to get that right is difficult or onerous for a professional artist working for a company run by history nuts. Of course the icons are representative - and for that reason should depict a typical soldier of that time and type of formation. The game itself is the most significant part of the package - its more important that that be an interesting contest and a good simulation. I would not play a game for graphics alone. That said, it is a high third order priority. Maybe if you saw this site as a free way of guaging customer interests and tastes rather than as a boxing ring...

Jag retar mig i alla fall fortfarande på att man inte bryr sig om så enkel research mer.

[Elias Nordling]

Du har blivit Ty Bombad. All kritik är personlig och måste bemötas med motangrepp.

[A F]

Jag retar mig i alla fall fortfarande på att man inte bryr sig om så enkel research mer.

Håller med dig totalt. Jag har ägnat en del tid åt detta och det operativa ordet här måste dock vara "ENKEL". Annars driver du din AD till självmord. Fransoserna i Egypten hade bikorn eller en underlig baseball-liknande smäck. Jackorna var korta. Ge alla de dragen och det ser rätt ut. Tack för kaffet och det är inte så jäkla svårt. Om du däremot börjar gräva ner dig i vilka regementen som hade vilken färg på vad (Brun rock med gula slag? Ett regemente hade det. Delvis.) så blir du psykotisk. För sekunden efter att du fått allt i ordning och skickat brickorna till tryck så kommer det att komma ut nån jäkel ur lövverket och påpeka att Paris Andra Voluntärbataljon inte fick gula strumpor förrän på hösten.

[Snowfox]

Fascinerande ordväxling.  

Det är sånt här som händer när man lämnar det som lite hafsigt benäms Natosymboler.

[A F]

Det är sånt här som händer när man lämnar det som lite hafsigt benäms Natosymboler.

Som för övrigt var i bruk redan i slutet på sjuttonhundratalet...

[BigPapaBear]

Fascinerande ordväxling.  

Instämmer. Jag har aldrig tagit del av det mytomspunna Ty Bomba-fenomenet "på riktigt". Det var kul.  

[magnus lindström]

Detta var väl inte så farliga motangrepp?

[A F]

Detta var väl inte så farliga motangrepp?

Beror på vilket forum du jämnför med. Men det finns onekligen några designers i vår branch som lider av olycklig internet persona (IOP). De upplever alla synpunkter på deras produkt som personangrepp och jag upplever att problemen är självförvållade och bottnar i dålig självkritik. Man vet att det borde gått att ordna en karta som inte skrämmar hästar i sken, men man hade inte tid/råd/förmåga och när någon omdelbart säger "dude, din karta skrämmer min häst" så blir man rasande. Jobbar med en europeisk firma vars alla problem kan härledas till IOP och det faktum att personen med IOP tror att han kan skriva begriplig engelska.

[Vvornth]

Det tar max 3 min på google att hitta de färgerna som var aktuella i denna fråga. Oavsett hur elokvent man försöker förklara att det inte finns tid/pengar till att ta reda på så simpla detaljer så döljer det inte att det mest är frisering av dålig research.

[Strv102r]

Kartan med utvalda förtydliganden.

[Strv102r]

Min operationsplan. Kraftsamlingsriktningen är givetvis längs kusten med två divisioner, 17 & 21. 5 div anfaller på två täter i norr.

På bildens er vi hur framryckningen har påbörjat enligt plan och hur de första striderna ansätts.

[Strv102r]

Både 21 och 5 div har framgång och 21 div når fram till TAVASTEHUS, men fästningen SVARTHOLMEN håller. 4 div anländer bakom 21. Fienden tömmer SVEABORG på brigader och förstärker SVARTHOLMEN och HELSINGFORS.

[Strv102r]

I nordväst samlar svensken sina två brigader, de starkaste han har, vilket gör att 5 div blir för svag för att våga sig på ett anfall. Jag är hejdad.

21 div ska ta TAVASTEHUS och 17 ska anfalla SVARTHOLMEN på nytt. 4 div framrycker mot HELSINGFORS.